Thursday, May 26, 2011

Single Payer In Vermont Starts Today

Color me surprised, but Vermont has done it. Single payer is now available. As Amy Goodman points out in the article this is how it began in Canada. Single payer first came to Saskatchewan and was so successful it would be adopted by the entire country. Let's hope our country follows the same pattern.

Update: Is it really single payer? Maybe not. Crap.


Chad said...

Being a State's Right guy I applaud Vermont for taking ownership of their own health care situation.

For Vermont this is a brilliant stroke really and frankly I am surprised your such a supporter. When you break everything down, I am a bit shocked that you even posted this as some type of victory. First and foremost there are probably only a handful of states that would every go this direction. Personally I think they are headed for a huge failure, but time will tell how long it will take for them to fall on their face. They will have some hurdles - read an article this morning where 46% of the doctors surveyed said they oppose a single payer system and 25% of those would close their practice or leave Vermont if a single payer system goes into affect. The #1 private employer in Vermont did not want a single payer system and some reports have them looking for a new home. 84% of the more wealthy Vermont residence will opt into the exchange which keeps many private insurance options on the table for them. Polling the same group of wealthy Vermont'ers 50% would go out of state for private care and a staggering 29% said they would consider moving or changing their resident address to opt out - mmmm.

Then these great tidbits starting with my personal favorite is limiting access to illegals! Unless that changed recently, no provisions for those who are not citizens of the US - awesome. Even Jon would be forced to admit that if on June 1, 2011 - every illegal in the USA gets beamed back to their home country (Estimated to be 15 million people) health care costs would plumit to almost half what they are today for actual citizens and Vermont knows it.

Ironically enough - Vermont really didn't even have to address that situation - 96% of their population is made up of white folks, but they still singled out the estimated 7,500 illegals in Vermont beacuse they are cancer that had to be cut out.

The economy or I should say the lack there of in Vermont is also a key - Vermont is and has been stagnet for decades. That state rates dead last in the USA in GDP - dead last and they will stay there.

The median household income puts Vermont about in the middle of all the states and yet their tax burden by income is over 11% putting that rate in the top 10 highest in the USA.

So if we are evaluating a state that is capable of putting a single payer system in play the following must be true. Must be a small state in population with little to no population growth or change. A state that has to have a very low GDP and must be economically stagnet. Those people working in the state must earn a much better than average wage, but taxes have to be some of the highest (top 10 in US) around per income percentage. Lets not forget that illegals would not be allowed and the population mix would be 96% white. Provisions for the wealthy must allow those folks the ability to keep some levels of private insuranse so they don't leave the state and somehow they must be able to keep the private employers currently in the state happy because if just one of the few big employers leave it would nearly instantaneously implode the single payer idea on the spot. Good to know.

Jon said...

Always source claims if you can. These contradict what I'm familiar with. Doctors generally like single payer. In the case of Vermont many are expressing a desire to move there if single payer gets through.

I regard it as a triumph when the will of the people overrides the will of powerful corporations opposed to the people. Sometimes the interests of corporations and the people align, but when they don't corporations often win because of their concentrated wealth. We end up with policies that are good for specific corporations but bad for the public at large. Is it good for the public that we deforest large swaths of rain forest in the Amazon? No. But it's good for agri business. So here's a recent loss for the public and win for corporations. The war in Iraq has been good for the defense sector and has fueled record profits for the oil industry. Not so good for the rest of us. And opposed by the rest of us. It's tough to beat back corporations, but when it happens I'm glad.

You say I'd have to admit that if illegals were removed health care costs would be cut in half. Why would I admit that? If you have a reason for believing that I'd be interested in hearing it. What you need to do though is instead of just asserting it like it's a fact take the time and show us why you would believe such a thing. Maybe attempt to determine total unreimbursed health care expenditures on illegals and contrast that with total health care expenditures.

Vermont is dead last in GDP you say. Given that the population of the whole state is a mere 600,000 is that a bad thing? Don't you think GDP/capita would be a better indicator?

As you may notice from my update above, it's not clear this really is single payer. Sounds more like Obama style. If true then it would seem corporations won again and we shouldn't expect much here. That sucks.

Chad said...

Why site sources - you routinely and without fail attack the source of said article or author then you turn around ( like you did in your reply) site left wing media to try and validate your position. Polls today are mis-leading at best - I have been apart of the data collection for them in the past so I know.

Average or below average doctors will flock to Vermont --- you bet, they will make a wage without accountability which is great for them. The skilled doctors, the best of the best will not be in Vermont - that is a promise and almost guarantee. That is what you and most Liberals fail to realize, take away choices and freedoms to earn at one place and the earners and best will take their skills elsewhere. Vermont care will be below average in 5 years or less, except for those doctors who stay in Private care or just over the state line.

I pointed out in my post that even though Vermont is absolutely dead last in GDP they are mid pack in household income already. Vermont is not on anyone's top 30 states to live, probably not even on the top 40 really and without UConn maybe the state would turn into a Forrest reserve so population control has been easy. Wondering what will happen when revenue leaves and zero liability/parasites looking for a handout start finding their way to the state? With only 600,000 residence in the state, just a handful of either companies or wealthy individuals leaving the state may cripple them.

Nothing from you about a complete illegal lockout, how about the fact that it is essentially a white state and they are doing all they can to eliminate social equality? I know your excited about the residence surrendering more than 11% of their wages to government, but that is top 10 highest to make the wheels turn - not good.

Jon said...

Where did I attack sources? You haven't even provided a source, so how could I attack it? You've attacked my sources. I don't mind. Attack away. That's what we're here for. Put the evidence on the table and evaluate it.

But you don't do that. You offer your own "promises" and "guarantees." I'd be much more interested in evidence then your guarantees.

Chad said...

Kinda interesting that I never mentioned a "promise" or "guarantee" once, but ok Jon. Like I said originally I am impressed and very much ok with Vermont deciding their own fate - at least they are trying not to steal money from me to do it. Finally a state taking responsibility for themselves - kinda. My point, position, argument here is to make sure we are clear what type of state/situation would be required to implement a version of single payer. Small population, with an already high tax burden that does not have an immigration problem, a place that is dominated by one race, a place that has shown zero growth in GDP in decades and a place where 25% of the employment is provided by government.

I forgot one, median income for said small state needs to be much better than the national average.

Last but most important, the state put into law a provision locking out coverage for illegals. This eliminates the one area that can take down any health care plan - they just eliminated the possibility of 100,000 illegals moving in and flooding the system so they are controlling their environment.

Personally I see big failure coming, the rich/wealthy are not going to wait in line to see a doctor so they will opt out or move. Doctors interested in making money will move so the best physicians will be leaving so lots of challenges.

Any government site outlines the population, tax burden, employment info.

Sheldon said...

Consider this.

The position of doctors in all of this is changing.